Character Conversation #1: Silver Satin

[Doctor Robo]

One of my favorite characters on the show was Seven of Nine, and yes Jeri Ryan was a BIG reason.

I'm right there with you. In fact, Alpha Woman's silver suit in "Twisted Tales" is an homage to 7 of 9's first outfit after she was freed from the Borg.

7 of 9: http://blog.buycostumes.com/uploaded_im ... 729572.jpg

Alpha Woman: http://free.hipcomix.com/gallery2/main. ... emId=45511

At that time we were very early on in the mind control game, so the helmets were what we were going with at the time instead of nanoprobes or some other robotization method.

- Doc

[mkmngr]

From those initial pictures with the helmets (and paying homage to Doc Robo's desire for visible enslavement), it is clear that the progress towards miniaturisation would be more accurately presented in 2010 by collars and greentooth ear-pieces.

Infiltration of the corridors of power, achieved with less-visibly subjugated women, is a great theme. It will cause those women who retain their free-will a greater challenge - how to detect the enslaved/controlled women in their midst before they, too, are acquired by the mind-slavers. "Will she realise before she is taken?" could be our motto for 2010.

How about a pilot story, perhaps spreading from a telecomms company's corporate headquarters, where the (subjugated) female head of product research pitches Greentooth to the female board members (with the fitment of a sample Greentooth unit to every woman, of course, as part of the "feminine and convenient" proposition) prior to a targeted rollout amongst the senior female staff? And from there, could the mind-slaver aim to get a Greentooth unit into every delicate female ear in the city......... who can stop the mind-slavers? Bring on the super-heroines!

Happy New Year from across the Pond.

Mike

[Akonkid]

I've also been a tad disappointed how Marcy is almost a walking "Ex Machina" (ironically). Many times now the odds have been stacked against her, she does something she doesn't understand or think will work, and suddenly the tide is turned. She's done this against Mechana, Blackout, and Sentius, and it's getting to where she almost seems indestructible or just has supernatural good luck, but it's starting to wear thin for me. Rather than having a more clever or interesting solution, or even one with a different character, Marcy can just show up and somehow, someway, fix the situation (by the power of her unending cuteness).

I wanted to update a bit on my previous statement... 'cause after reading the latest "Digital Desires", I think this part is more true now than ever. I love Marcy to death, but I'm past the breaking point with her and her surreal ability to "luck" her way into victories. A few times is okay, even good, but now it's just gotten ridiculous and I honestly don't want to see Silver Satin show her face again for awhile because she now infamous for ruining all the hot, sexy mind control scenes alot of us greatly enjoy.

Here's the breakdown for further proof:
1. In "Hostile Takeover", Marcy is freed from her enslavement because Belinda was unaware her device was incompatible with Sentius's implants. She goes on to tell the heroines how to stop Sentius and save the day.
2. In "Superheroine Squad", she's freed from her enslavement because Shelley was fortunate enough to be around and disable her programming.
3. Also in "Superheroine Squad", she frees Mechana from her enslavement after a lucky electrical shock negates her programming.
4. In "Night of the Drones", Marcy is fortuate enogh to disable Blackout's programming, allowing other heroines to use their power again (how fortunate that Blackout's powers didn't work on Silver Satin... I guess 'cause they're not natural).
5. Also in "Night of the Drones", Marcy frees herself and all her teammates with the amazing power of love and can-do attitude. She goes on to help blow Sentius up and save the day... Again.
6. In "King of Hooter County", Marcy again resists the mind control powers of MilkMaid that enslaved everyone else through her magically-effective willpower, thus stopping the threat and saving the day... Again.
7. In "Digital Desires", she's fortunate enough to be unaffected by hacker progams that can control the most advanced robot in the city, fakes being controlled to scout out his location, continues to play along (why?), and then reveals it was all fake. She frees Mechana from her enslavement (again) and saves the day (again).

I'm all for advancing Silver Satin's character, showing her mature from a rookie newbie to a talented heroine, and keeping her accessible for future stories, but at this point, based on what I've seen, Marcy's more capable at saving the day than veterans like Ms. Metrobay, Omega Woman, Valiant Woman, Pink Pussycat, or, heck, anybody else in the business. She was and is the "Ex Machina" character of Metrobay, much like Superman could spin the earth backwards in time and Marvel's The Sentry can throw anything into the sun. Marcy is just too perfect now. She can't be beaten. Somehow, she'll magically save the day.

I still love her, and this is hardly an attack on her as a character, but I'm going to admit; I'm burned out on her. If/when she shows up again, she'd better get a healthy dose of reality that's she's not half the heroine more experienced crimefighters like Solaria, Valient Grrl, Jade Lightning, or even Snowflake are. Karma needs to bite her on the ass so hard it'll leave teethmarks.

I'm certain alot of this wasn't intentional, and Marcy does remain a compelling character. You'll find few who love the Metrobay world more than I do, but this is the first time I've EVER been outright disappointed in a character. Of course, these are just my opinions. Maybe somebody else is far more tolerant of her god-level abilities or even prefers her like that. But for me, I'm tired of her and I'm going to start looking at any future stories involving her with apathy instead of interest.

[finister]

Sounds like you're getting into the mindset of how a Metrobay villain views Marcy "Foiled again!!"

She's like the opposite of the Sith Lord... you cannot resist the power of the GOOD side! ha! ha! ha!

I think her sweet and nerdy persona kinda makes one think she'd be an easy target - when she's actually potent. I like her techno-cyber-whatever powers too! Maybe she will become more and more a 'superpowered' heroine as she learns how to use her super powers.

I liked Willoughby's (?) alternate costume. Maybe she could do like the Lynda Carter Wonder Woman and have different 'cyber' outfits for different missions? Like underwater...flight... etc.

It's way cool everyone took the time to give their feedback on Marcy here!!

[madcap]

Wow, when Akonkid lays it all out like that it really becomes apparent just how powerful she is. I truly love seeing Silver Satin controlled, I do, but at the same time she really has been responsible for ruining so many great moments in these stories with her whole "saving the day" nonsense. Who needs that?? Certainly not me!

I got the impression from Digital Desires though that she really was under the guy's control at first and that the "apparently it was all a ruse" bit of narration was expressing his point of view. Of course, perhaps I just saw what I wanted to see, but that's how I interpreted it. And then naturally Marcy would play it off like his "crappy" programming skills could never get the upper hand on her.

I'm all for seeing more of Silver Satin in these stories, but like Akon has pointed out, maybe it's time to find different ways for the day to be saved (or maybe you guys could make up for all her do-goodery by making her unsavable at some point. )

[Sir Willoughby]

Silver Satin 2.0 may or may not be appearing in The Platinum Earth in the next few weeks at http://www.hipcomix.com
And she may or may not be put through the wringer.
There shall be no Deus Ex Machina.

[madcap]

I like the sound of that! I've let my membership lapse on there for a while but I could stand to sign up again for a while. I enjoyed your Platinum Earth story while I was on there.

[finister]

Once Marcy becomes totally self-aware of her superpowers I imagine she'll overcome her shyness and forgo her academic cyber garb as she becomes a heroine who will strike fear ( and hard-ons ) in every villain.

The smart people have had their week to discuss this so I say let us viscerally gravitating individuals now indulge our more primordial drives...

Let us say some ultra-smart villain captures Marcy and turns her into the redheaded Ms Metrobay. What would that sultry vixxxen look like?

I vote Victoria Red - because I'm a perv

[Doctor Robo]

Even though I disagree with Akonkid's assessment of my use of Silver Satin, I appreciate the passion and thought that he puts into his forum posts. In fact, I can say that about all of you in one form or another. It is a pleasure to have such a vocal group of readers who are willing to discuss these stories and characters at such great lengths. That makes sitting down at my computer each night to work on these stories that much more enjoyable.

That said, my treatment of Marcy (and many of our other characters) is done as much out of necessity as it is out of personal choice. In order to be able to reuse these characters - especially the popular ones like Marcy - in story after story requires that we push the proverbial 'reset button' on a fairly regular basis. If we let the villains win too often, then eventually we won't have any heroines left for them to capture and enslave. But, if we let the good guys win, then the villains can escape to plan another evil scheme sometime down the road.

I know what you're thinking: "But Doc, why not just create a new heroine to replace Marcy?" Because it takes a lot of time to craft a character, and even more time to mold her personality into something that resonates with readers. If we had to create new characters for every new story, we would have much less time to spend on making the stories themselves worth reading.

That's not to say we're against creating new characters. Obviously we aren't, as witnessed recently by Erica Donovan, or Gallant Lass, or Penny (who? just wait...) to name a few. We just want to protect our 'main' characters so we have the ability to use them again and again as the stories require.

So, sure, Marcy can be seen as a walking deus ex machina, and so can a few others. But, you can say that about Superman or Batman. Sometimes the good guys have to win in order for the series to continue. I apologize if this doesn't sit well with some of you, but I'm afraid that's the way it has to be in order for the Metrobay Universe on the whole to continue to grow and thrive.

- Doc

[dumbtime]

I agree with you about the Victoria Red idea, Fin and I also agree with Doc about preserving the characters. Unless you make 'throw away' characters, you want the main characters to find away to comeback so the villians can go after them. Its the same with the main villians as well.

An interesting idea poped into my head while reading and typing in this forum thread about how to get Marcy's innocence out of the way of some of the readers. What would happen if instead of being the goodie good superheroine and helping the Superheroine Squad, she actually became a villian and fought against them. Here's my thinking about it -

What if one day Marcy was surfing the net with her special ability and went to a website linked to a pop up that had a virus attached to it built to attack Windows 7. Lets say instead of seeking out the computer hard drive, it went after Marcy's cybernetic brain, Sentiusizing* her into thinking differently than she did. Now she sees herself as the dominate female because of her cybernetic postition and abilites and sees all other women as inferior, especially the SS. She catches the unexpecting Mechana and converts her into being her sidekick of domination. Then, she proceeds to start capturing and enslaving the members of the SS. The first few SS member fall easily to Anti-Silver Satin because they are caught offguard and Marcy has full knowedge of each SS member's weaknesses.

Northern Chill's short story with Chriss Tanner nanobyting Silver Satin is an example of how most people view Marcy and her gullible innocence. But, how would she be perceived if the shoe was on the other foot. Sentius used Marcy's gullibility to capture and turn her into a minion. That's all we know about her doing evil, as a minion. But, what if she is temporarily a free thinking villian?


*Sentiusized - the mindset of seeing all normal humans as inferior and therefore, must be altered to a better state of being.

[Trishbot]

Here's my opinion on Silver Satin's "ex Machina" status.

I think Akonkid exaggerates a bit to make a point, but it's a valid one. Doc also has a safe and secure mindset or allowing popular characters to be reused. I absolutely understand the need to "reset" the characters to a proper status quo, but I think the issue is that Marcy in particular is always the one doing the resetting. Saving the day is great, but she's done it over an over and over again... by herself. We have DOZENS of characters that could save HER, but she manages to save herself and everyone else single-handedly. If, for example, it had been MECHANA saving MARCY in "Digital Desires", it would have been a far better turn of events and painted Mechana in a more heroic light then the rather "I'm going to have to babysit you more" conclusion we ended up with.

You can say that DC does that with Batman and Supeman, but I think that's only partially true. Superman's been outright KILLED before and Batman's had his back broken and put out of commission for an extended period of time before. Right now, there's even a NEW Batman running around because the old one got sent back in time or something.

And while keeping the status quo constant and not "eliminating" well-liked characters ensures they'll be around in the future, I absolutely believe there NEEDS to be permanent, life-altering changes. Now this is not a knock against Doc, because he's got his own writing style and it obviously works great (he didn't earn that writer's award for nothing), but I've noticed many of the other writers DO eliminate characters at times. Willoughby's Platinum Earth series has lost key characters. Akonkid's League of Liberty had their LEADER permanently brainwashed by aliens. Finister's original Clawdette and Nightengale were permanently replaced by successors. And not to toot my own horn, but nobody in Hypnotica is coming out of the ordeal as the same person.

Sometimes getting rid of a character is the best thing you can do. Metal Gear Solid 2 got rid of their main hero to show how important he was to the franchise and created a longing for his return. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. I'm not saying Silver Satin SHOULD be eliminated and replaced, but to a degree I do think she's overstaying her welcome. At LEAST have someone else save the day besides her. It's like if Aquaman was the one to save the entire JLA 7 times in a row.

But now I'm ranting. While "Digital Desires" was, admittedly, one big empty tease, Marcy has had some of the sexiest, most memorable MC moments in the entire series, such has her first conversion, the infamous Ted Twiss foursome, the lab boy double-team, and.... wait, was that the last time she was really MC'ed? Holy cow, that was ages ago! Scratch that! Reformat that girl's brain pronto! I like Dumbtime's "infect her with a virus" idea and use her innocent sweetness to a distinctly evil advantage! Bwa ha ha ha ha!

[Northern Chill]

Just to echo what Trishbot has said, a killing off of a character isn't necessary but a story where not everything resets for all characters helps. If, for example, 5 members of the Squad start a story and by the end 4 are back to normal but wonder where the fifth one has gone, it sets up a story down the line.."The Return of X/Search for X, etc...". Imagine a MC controlled SS or Omega Woman squaring off with the heroines she fought with as the real villain sits back and watches gleefully. A scene where lovers Vailent Grrl and Alpha Woman square off in a fight could be phenomenal from an art standpoint not to mention dialogue...heck, the MC heroine could be wearing a new badass outfit to signify her new look in life.

I'm not saying it has to be done but taking someone like Satin or Brown Sugar and shaking them up on their mindset for longer than the path of a single story may help them grow as a character.

[Trishbot]

Just to echo what Trishbot has said, a killing off of a character isn't necessary but a story where not everything resets for all characters helps. If, for example, 5 members of the Squad start a story and by the end 4 are back to normal but wonder where the fifth one has gone, it sets up a story down the line.."The Return of X/Search for X, etc...". Imagine a MC controlled SS or Omega Woman squaring off with the heroines she fought with as the real villain sits back and watches gleefully. A scene where lovers Vailent Grrl and Alpha Woman square off in a fight could be phenomenal from an art standpoint not to mention dialogue...heck, the MC heroine could be wearing a new badass outfit to signify her new look in life.

I'm not saying it has to be done but taking someone like Satin or Brown Sugar and shaking them up on their mindset for longer than the path of a single story may help them grow as a character.

I agree. That's one of the reasons I liked Doc and Akonkid's "Unity" storyline. Not everybody came back and it didn't wrap everything up nice and neatly. There are open-ends that fans WANT to see told (Unity Maya anyone?).

Speaking of which, I love the "heroine turned evil" concept. I proposed a story with Omega Woman being turned evil that was ultimately rejected, but I figured I could share the mock-up of her evil persona.

[madcap]

LOVE the evil Omega Woman!

I too like the idea of a hero becoming a villain at some point. That kind of "corruption" can be a VERY hot form of mind control if handled well. Dumbtime's suggestion about turning Marcy evil was a clever idea, I thought, and seeing something like that would be awesome (a villainous Marcy could still be controlled by other villains too, remember).

I think most of us understand that the bad guys can't win in an overwhelming and permanent way, but when the "reset" button gets hit after every story, completely rebooting things across the board, it takes away from the impact these stories can have.

I don't think anybody expects you to permanently enslave vast swaths of heroines only to have to replace them later with a new team that you will then do the same thing to, wash, rinse, repeat, etc. But most of the characters in these stories haven't even undergone any permanent changes from their experiences. At the very least I would think some of them would be carrying mental scars, or it would change their attitude to be more cynical, or something. The stuff they're undergoing is pretty intense, and they seem largely unaffected by it (granted, there's probably nobody who wants to see things get terribly "heavy" in these comics--myself included).

But I'm honestly having trouble thinking of more than one or two situations where the villains HAVE won in these Metrobay stories...Shelly is still under Max Indeck's control, so there is that, I suppose. But I can't think of any other situation (I'm sure there are a couple) where a character has met with some kind of permanent fate. I've always been a proponent of having the bad guys win occasionally, but I'm not talking about huge, sweeping Sentius victories that would ruin the universe. I would however still like to see the occasional heroine end up permanently enslaved, changed, altered or transformed in some substantial way. Bad guys can get their small victories here and there, without ruining the universe, and still keeping those of us who like to see the villains win from time to time satisfied.

Don't get me wrong, Doc, I love your work, and I've enjoyed all these Metro Bay stories, but they seem to harken a bit more towards the old "always return to the status quo" storytelling style of comics and I'd like to see you dip into the newer bag of "let's shake things up a bit" once in a while. You can constantly evolve this universe without making it unusable, and I'd like to see you go down that road.

[Akonkid]

I think I opened up a can of worms here and came across as far too negative than I intended to be.

While I'm sticking with my guns and still believe Silver Satin has pulled victories out of her hat 6 times too often, that is far from the case for every story, which a few people seem to have begun inferring.

There have been plenty of times where heroines have lost. For four straight story arcs, Dr. Twisted was an unopposed superheroine enslaver. "Wireless" showed both Dani and Mayor Turner controlled by Max Indeks (and they still are). Shelley was turned into Super Freak and remains under Max's control. Warden Smith is still Belinda's puppet. It doesn't look like Erica Donovan is going to be escaping any time soon either.

Of course, you are argue that none of those women currently controlled are superheroines. But even then, a quick overview of the Metrobay wiki reveals that a villain like Lady Heartbreak used to be the heroine Nightengale; that Amanda Tanner, who used to be Clawdette, had her entire superhero persona erased from her mind; and Freedom Girl and Juris Prudence are still doting brainwashed Stepford wives for ROPE pervs.

I think a fantastic example of shaking up the status quo has been the "Hypnotica" series. Valient Grrl's one of the oldest heroines in terms of creation; she was around before Doc even created the mind-blowing "Rookie Mistake". She seemed unshakable, constant, and reliable... and then this comic just turns all that on its head like Darth Vader saying he's Luke's father. I always liked Valient Grrl best, but a dramatic change like that made her fresh, interesting, and more attractive than ever (that is if the story isn't misleading me or a dream.)

Same goes to what Willoughby's doing over at HIPComix with the Metrobay girls in the Platinum Earth series. Sucking popular heroines like Snowflake and Jade Lightning to a different dimension, raising the stakes, and even enslaving Metrobay heroes and villains while thrusting them into a strange new world does a lot to help infuse the characters with new life.

Silver Satin was actually one of the FIRST good examples of that. Her entire existence as a superheroine is because of a massive, traumatic, permanent, life-altering change. I find it strange that fans loved her for that very important reason, because her life was so dramatically changed, but after a massive upheaval like that anything less feels like treading water. It's more a testament to her fantastic debut than anything else.

Okay, and that's the last I'll say on her story development. I need to follow Finister Foul's example and find something sexy to talk about now.